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Grace For All People

Posted Jul 8 2011 by Jonathan Brink in , , with 24 Comments

Just saying…

All the nations you have made will come and worship before you, O Lord; they will bring glory to your name. (Ps 86:9)

Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; his love endures forever. (1 Ch 16:34)

“And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.” (Joel 2:28)

The LORD will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God. (Is 52:10)

And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.” (Is 40:5)

You open your hand and satisfy the desires of every living thing. (Ps 145:16)

“I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’” (Is 65:1)

Gather together and come! Approach together, you refugees from the nations! Those who carry wooden idols know nothing, those who pray to a god that cannot deliver. (Is 45:20)

O you who hear prayer, to you all men will come. (Ps 65:2)

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About the Author

Jonathan BrinkI am an business development and communications consultant. I am also the senior editor and publisher for Civitas Press. I recently published, Discovering The God Imagination: Reconstructing A Whole, New Christianity. (Civitas, 2011)View all posts by Jonathan Brink →

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for posting these Jonathan…. They are truly ALL inclusive.

    • David

      Joe,u00a0 I must say ….. and taken out of context for the most part as all verses sited have a story and narritive around them.u00a0u00a0 I simply disagree that they are all inclusive.u00a0 Well maybe the one where it refers to the idea of every one will see the Glory of the Lord Is 40:5…very simlar to the verse in Rom that every knee will bow….u00a0 nnYes all will one day stand before a Holy God.u00a0

      • http://jonathanbrink.com Jonathan Brink

        Even if one is literal. I’m good.

        • David

          Understand that Jonathan.u00a0 I do see Gods Grace as applying to all to an extent.u00a0 By His Grace we all have Life and all that pertains to life.u00a0 We all enjoy His Grace in Creation, and yes we all will see God one day in all His Glory !u00a0 nnWe all have opportunity to come to God or I should say He Came to “all” of us because of His Love for us all !u00a0 I get that too.u00a0 nnSo we are not far apart…..Just think some (and I do hope it’s few relatively speaking) that will not see His Love become real !nn

      • Anonymous

        Please read the verses again and do not just reply… Please explain which are taken out of context and what that context is.

        • David

          Would you like a book as well Joe ?u00a0 :-) u00a0 I’ll take you up on your suggestions, but it may not be today.u00a0 Too much going on.u00a0 Teaching some art to some great students from age 7 to 12.u00a0 Great fun !u00a0 Got au00a0class of teenagers next !u00a0 UGH…….u00a0

          • Anonymous

            I don’t need a book David, What I would like is for you to recognize that you come to scripture with presuppositions just like I do. I happen to believe my presuppositions are more correct because they are based upon how Jesus viewed the scripture, but they are presuppositions just the same. The presuppositions that orthodox Christianity holds about hell and eternal punishment are *very weak* indeed but to even question it seems to so many like damnable heresy. You have accused Jonathan and then me of taking the above scriptures out of context so it is on you to demonstrate that.

          • David

            Well you say….With an introduction like you just wrote Joe, I’m not interested in proving or demonstrating who is more right or more wrong.u00a0 You do look at scriptrure from a different perspective and I happen to disagree is all.u00a0 nnI feel no real need to prove you or Jonathan wrong.u00a0 In fact, not a good option at all even if I felt I needed to.u00a0 I simply disagree and feel that most of the scriptures noted were out of the context of the narritive.u00a0 nnAs far as hell and eternal punishment and an orthodox view I just don’t know…..I believe the scripture is clear on the existance of deamons, satan, and even Hell.u00a0 Howu00a0ALL that scripture tells us about hell and those who don’t undersatndu00a0God’s Loving Grace through Jesus is a bit confussing or there wouldn’t be so much discussion about it.u00a0 nnI do know God Loves us.u00a0 So much He demonistrated that on the cross.u00a0 Those that don’t hold to a Loving God or think there is no hope for them and reject God out of hand and even His existance and His Love it seems to me, that they will suffer loss.u00a0 What that is, I don’t really know.u00a0u00a0 I do believe it’s seperation from God’s Love and Grace, but it could be more.nnNot everyone will experience God’s Love & Grace.u00a0 I think that is clear in both the OT & NT.u00a0 As far as scripture wars…not a good place to be in Joe.u00a0 Bless you brother….nn(note I did say to Jonathan that I thought we were close in our thoughts on the subject)u00a0 I hope we don’t have to agree on eveything spiritual nor feel we have to prove one way or the other.u00a0 I accept you & I believe Jonathan tend towards universalism.u00a0 I don’t think Jonathan is a universalist as such from what I’ve read of him.u00a0 He certanily does believe in the unversal Love of our Creator to all and so do I.u00a0 I assume you do to.u00a0 Hope this helps clearify my position.nnDavidnn

          • Anonymous

            David,nPlease spare me the sermon… When you commented on my comment (you did not have too) you entered the scripture wars by explaining that my take was merely out of context. You are really quick to shoot people down with the bible and then you simply run.nnJesus entire ministry was rooted in scripture wars. Now, modern day Pharisees beat people with the scripture and one of the main tools is to simply say that is taken out of context. I made a very simple observation and you jumped on it. u00a0I’m not quick to believe that love is merely being quiet. You seem to feel the same way or we would not be having this discussion.nnMy point is that the orthodox evangelical presuppositions on the bible are so entrenched and so sacrosanct that people FEARu00a0exploringu00a0outside the lines. It is sad indeed. While you think that the bible teaches that not all will be saved… I believe that it teaches that ULTIMATELY they will.

          • http://jonathanbrink.com Jonathan Brink

            I want to stop the argument before it gets ugly.u00a0 Joe, please don’t attack David.u00a0 And David, I want to suggest that Joe is calling you out because he’s right.u00a0 I love that you engage here.u00a0 You are very kind and considerate in your dialog.u00a0 But you don’t provide a basis for your position.u00a0 Instead you say, “I just don’t know.”u00a0 That’s fine, but it’s not okay when it comes just after saying the above verses were quoted out of context.u00a0 nnLike I’ve said, even if one means all, and I disagree that they are out of context, it provides a basis against the traditional argument.u00a0 You can’t just ignore one verse even if there are several other verses that suggest against it.u00a0 nnI actually don’t make my argument for grace with these verses.u00a0 They are simply reiterating what I think God originally created.u00a0 But our approach to them does affect how we present the Gospel.

          • Anonymous

            Jonathan, Your wish is my command :) … David, I want to apologize if it seems that I am attacking you. I actually like David!

          • David

            No issues and thanks.u00a0 This is tough stuff and the truth about God’s Grace is that He is more about Grace than I know and understand and more about restoration and at the same time scriptures do refer to hell and a place of darkness.u00a0 Sou00a0the discussion is important and not to be taken lightly.u00a0 u00a0nnI too Joe didn’t want to offend and am sorry for doing so…..nu00a0u00a0 Thanks Davidnn

          • David

            You know, I’m really trying to work though this stuff.u00a0 I see two positions.u00a0 Both in the OT & NT on God’s judgement and His Grace.u00a0 I see Jesus dealing with deamons and them asking why he wants to torment them before their time !u00a0 nnSo yah I have many mixed questions and feelings on the subjects of hell, Grace, and those who reject God’s Love.u00a0 And there are frankly mixed messages (in my view) in Scripture.u00a0 Some of these mixed messages I think result from our expectation as Joe pointed out or our own views and background and some juts from the narritive it’s self.u00a0 nnSo If I sound like I flip flop a bit and don’t supply a particular defense it’s because I see different views and although I come down on a more conserative perspective most times I can see other perspectives and then I have these questions….So it’s hard at times to know.u00a0 The words of Jesus “depart from me I never knew you” are tough words.

  • Anonymous

    word.

    • http://jonathanbrink.com Jonathan Brink

      to your mother. ;-) n

  • David

    Yep, Very good examples of the poetry language of the Ps & Is for the most part.u00a0 Not sure I would take these verses Jonathan and draw conclusions on these alone apart from perspectives of other Scripture and the stories they tell as well as the narritive, especially in Matt,u00a0John, and Rom….nnBut your point is well taken.u00a0 Sometimes “all” is used as figutive language.u00a0 Notu00a0always used as what we may think it means.u00a0 But for the most part all is all that all means….!u00a0 nnBut you probably thought I would say something like this…LoL….Trust all is well Jonathan.nnRegards, Davidu00a0

    • http://jonathanbrink.com Jonathan Brink

      Yes I did David. ;-P

      • http://jonathanbrink.com Jonathan Brink

        And David the prophets had a way of getting things right when everyone suggested they were wrong.

        • David

          I sure Understand that !u00a0u00a0

        • David

          I sure Understand that !u00a0u00a0

    • Anonymous

      David,nLet me make sure I understand what you are saying. The prophets and the psalmist didn’t really mean *all* but, they did literally mean that worm would not die… eternal lake of fire and eternal separation from God etc… and that when Jesus said “Mat 7:21-23 u00a0″Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. u00a0(22) u00a0Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ u00a0(23) u00a0And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” He could not have been addressing those that would reject him as the Messiah who would go through the judgment with some even losing their lives? As I have said before there are many ways to validly look at scripture, but to say that the redemptive declarations such as made by the prophets and psalmists including ALL are simply equivocation. Please think about it and examine your presuppositions.n

      • David

        Hi Joe,nnYah there is all different uses of the language in the Bible.u00a0 Some poetry, some history, some prophecy, some story telling, some parables etc…It’s a wise man who can determine the difference and understand.u00a0u00a0 (not saying I’m right & your wrong at all !)nnThe language in the Bible is,u00a0as you know, not somthing we can say is always direct and it’s meaning always clearly direct.u00a0 “all” is used in different ways ……..u00a0u00a0u00a0u00a0u00a0

        • Anonymous

          Have you ever taken time to look at the context of Isaiah 66:24?

          • Anonymous

            David,nIn your above writing is yet another example of your sneaky insults… You write “It’s a wise man who can determine the difference and understand.” implying that you are wise and I am not.

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