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Question To Ponder

Posted Apr 22 2011 by Jonathan Brink in  with 21 Comments

How is God satisfied by eternally punishing someone.  Is the concept of eternal punishment the exact opposite of satisfied?

Anyone?

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About the Author

Jonathan BrinkI am an business development and communications consultant. I am also the senior editor and publisher for Civitas Press. I recently published, Discovering The God Imagination: Reconstructing A Whole, New Christianity. (Civitas, 2011)View all posts by Jonathan Brink →

  • http://twitter.com/Rev_Gene Gene Anderson

    Interesting point. Is God satisfied with eternal punishment. Sounds like revenge. Of course, the Bible says “vengeance is mine, I will repay…” but I don’t think that is in this context. SOmething to think on today.

  • David

    I just don’t really know Jonathan. It seems to be against my sensibilities. nnAn interesting question. I don’t know….nnI do know God Loves us beyond measure and He demonistrated that Love on the Cross and not only that but we know on the third day he was risen ! In the totality of Scripture we have a picture of what hell is and for and I just feel some issues of God are beyond our perspective as we are blinded to some of the deep things of the Spirit. Our knowing is limited on this subject.nnI know it’s a poor answere….So, I should have stuck with I just don’t know.

    • http://jonathanbrink.com Jonathan Brink

      I don’t know is a perfectly acceptable response David.

  • http://profiles.google.com/lisa.mamula Lisa Mamula

    Good question. This is one of the biggest hangups I have with traditional evangelical doctrine. In my younger days, I was trying to be a “good Christian,” so I just accepted this view as truth and tried not to show how discomfiting it was to me. But as I have gotten older, discovered the emergent conversation, and allowed myself to question things, this is one mouthful I just can’t swallow anymore. nnIn my mind, it seems so wasteful for God to send Jesus in such a way, to live such a life, to die such a death, in order to provide salvation for… some. Just some. It seems to me that God ought to be able to do better than that.

  • Anonymous

    Here’s what I ask: We are supposed to forgive even though we get nothing for the wrongs against us. We get no payment. Because that is forgiveness – you get short changed. Is it forgiveness when God is getting “something” (blood)?

  • Anonymous

    Here’s what I ask: We are supposed to forgive even though we get nothing for the wrongs against us. We get no payment. Because that is forgiveness – you get short changed. Is it forgiveness when God is getting “something” (blood)?

  • http://projectawaken.com Darrell Vesterfelt

    Good question. I have been asking myself the same question since reading Love Wins. nnStill not sure. nnI am trying to fight a religious dogmatic response, and trying to openly think through hard questions like this. May the Spirit lead us.

  • http://projectawaken.com Darrell Vesterfelt

    Good question. I have been asking myself the same question since reading Love Wins. nnStill not sure. nnI am trying to fight a religious dogmatic response, and trying to openly think through hard questions like this. May the Spirit lead us.

  • http://theeternaldance.blogspot.com/ Lynelle

    This is the very topic I planned to come on here to discuss! My last three blog posts were about how love doesn’t punish (based on “there is no fear in love . . fear has to do with punishment . . .the one who fears is not made perfect in love.”nI have a very difficult time reading the bible, because of how it was used against me and others for so long, but I decided to give a go at the Psalms yesterday.nnWhere do I end up, but Psalm 34, which talks about things like the “Lord freeing me from all my fears” “taste and see that the Lord is good” and then “Calamity will surely overtake the wicked, and those who hate the righteous will be punished.”nnSo, love doesn’t punish . . . God is love . . . nnI am choosing to believe what brings me the most peace, since we can’t know for sure anyway, but I’d sure like to be able to read the bible again, without getting tripped up so frequently.nI just stick with what I know will encourage.nnI can’t see Love punishing. Maybe making those who are “evil” disappear, or something. But, made to suffer? That puts God in the place of a person bound by the law . . . he doesn’t want to, but has no choice. No, I can’t see it.

    • http://theeternaldance.blogspot.com/ Lynelle

      This Psalm I quoted, makes everything dependent on trusting the Lord. How is this measured? How trusting must one be? Would even one thought; one cry out to God, be enough? We are all wounded. All crying out in our own ways.

  • http://jacobscafe.blogspot.com Josh Morgan

    Great question. That’s an idea I wrote on my blog recently (sorry for the self-promotion: http://jacobscafe.blogspot.com/2011/04/eternal-punishment-may-not-be-biblical.html).nnPunishment is meant to instruct and strengthen and purify and create growth. Eternal punishment does none of those things, so Gene said, it’s more like revenge. Or torture. Doesn’t sound like the God I know…

  • http://jacobscafe.blogspot.com Josh Morgan

    Great question. That’s an idea I wrote on my blog recently (sorry for the self-promotion: http://jacobscafe.blogspot.com/2011/04/eternal-punishment-may-not-be-biblical.html).nnPunishment is meant to instruct and strengthen and purify and create growth. Eternal punishment does none of those things, so Gene said, it’s more like revenge. Or torture. Doesn’t sound like the God I know…

    • http://theeternaldance.blogspot.com/ Lynelle

      Makes sense to me, Josh. BTW, I clicked on your blog link and was told it couldn’t be found. nSo, you can look at mine, instead! http://theeternaldance.blogspot.com/n(I'll try yours again)

      • http://theeternaldance.blogspot.com/ Lynelle

        never mind. I got there. looks good. I’ll be watching!

        • http://jacobscafe.blogspot.com Josh Morgan

          Thanks, Lynelle! I noticed you use Networked Blogs, which is something I was just introduced to. I’ll have to sign up for that this weekend! :)

          • http://theeternaldance.blogspot.com/ Lynelle

            We can follow each other! I haven’t posted in a little while. n Since you’re a clinical psychologist, I’ll tell you I started blogging after some time in a mental hospital for being suicidal (I checked myself in with help from friends and family).nnDarin Hufford talked with me and suggested I start a blog. Thank you, thank you!nThe blog has been a powerful part of my recovery from where I’d gotten myself, and part of my ongoing search for a place to rest in God . . . in my life . . . in myself . . . nn(It’s within me . . . just still in a fluid, transitional place.)

  • http://openmindedconversations.blogspot.com/ jshmueller

    If you followed McKnight’s reviews of Bell’s book, the argument that comes up most frequently is the kind of justice that would act decisively against the oppressors on behalf of the oppressed. The idea then is not personal satisfaction (as in enjoying the suffering of the enemy) but the need to address evil in such a way that it not only stops hurting the victims but also experiences the depth of its own intrinsic darkness. Up to this point I don’t really have an objection to this argument. Problem is: once punishment loses any restorative trajectory, the one punishing becomes the very thing he’s punishing, i.e. an oppressor, torturer, or executioner.

    • http://jonathanbrink.com Jonathan Brink

      I Josh, that is the most succinct way of stating the paradox of eternal punishment.

      • http://openmindedconversations.blogspot.com/ jshmueller

        And I think it is for that very reason many evangelicals opt for the interpretation of annihilation instead of unending suffering. The second death then becomes a sort of mercy killing to end suffering before it becomes infinite, in the recognition that the person will never repent, no matter how long the punishment intended for correction lasts. Or the whole matter is relegated to the realm of the mysterious which we just cannot understand yet (somehow that always strikes me as an easy out, although I don’t deny that mystery exists and remains in many things).nnThere are three reasons why I find these approaches unconvincing:nn1. It makes the “lesser punishment” Jesus alludes to look pointless if the self-conscious identity of the individual is ultimately snuffed out.nn2. It appears to give human will the last word over salvation (i.e. rebellion is stronger than grace in some cases).nn3. It makes the fulfilment of God’s unrevokable oath at the end of Isaiah 45, in all tongues universally confessing God as their rigtheousness and strength, look pointless. “Ok, you’ve confessed the truth, now onto the final lethal injction?” Just doesn’t make sense to me when the “putting to shame” there seems to indicate an actual inner change that God is able to bring about and descrbes the essence of His ultimate victory over human rebellion and human misconception in our distorted images of God.

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  • http://www.paradigmshift-jmac.blogspot.com Joe Machuta

    This is a great question… It should have to be answered by every evangelical that teaches the current party-line doctrine of hell.

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