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	<title>Comments on: Hitting The Wall With Emergence</title>
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		<title>By: Annie</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-3859</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 03:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-3859</guid>
		<description>This is totally off-topic but I always find it a little strange when men deploy childbirth metaphors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is totally off-topic but I always find it a little strange when men deploy childbirth metaphors.</p>
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		<title>By: jshmueller</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-522</link>
		<dc:creator>jshmueller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-522</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, you asked, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Jeremy, I actually share those convictions.  I DO believe that the commitment to the guidance of the Scriptures and (from the viewpoint of that very lense) the tradition of historical communal decisions within the church still play an important role in discerning what is of God and what isn&#039;t.  That doesn&#039;t mean however that we have any real ecumenical consensus today regarding where the biblical canon itself ends, which creeds to include or exclude, never mind the wide range of possible interpretations of key parts of Scripture like creation and atonement.  As a matter of fact, the mere observation alone that we find a multitude of voices within Scripture itself, describing the same narrative in different ways, should caution us to exclude too quickly those views which don&#039;t seem to fit within a particular framework of theology.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is not a call to emancipation from Scripture nor pure relativism.  It is an attempt to take seriously the limitations of our individual perceptions and be intentional about listening to voices outside our comfort zones, even if that presents a challenge to reexamine those beliefs we hold most dearly.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The way I understand Emergent Village - it is a place where people can safely voice their opinions, questions, beliefs and share their personal journey in a mutually respectful conversation where uniformity of doctrinal position is neither an entry requirement nor the desired goal.  It comes from an understanding that relationship is at the heart of the Gospel, not a dead orthodoxy (although I&#039;m well aware that only too easily false dichotomies can be created here that pit the way of believing against the content of belief itself - that is certainly not my intent!).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just as a side note - have you read John Franke&#039;s &quot;Manifold Witness&quot;?  I think he&#039;s making a very strong case for a biblically based irreducible plurality of truth grounded in the trinitarian nature of God himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy, you asked, </p>
<p>&#8220;Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?&#8221;</p>
<p>Jeremy, I actually share those convictions.  I DO believe that the commitment to the guidance of the Scriptures and (from the viewpoint of that very lense) the tradition of historical communal decisions within the church still play an important role in discerning what is of God and what isn&#39;t.  That doesn&#39;t mean however that we have any real ecumenical consensus today regarding where the biblical canon itself ends, which creeds to include or exclude, never mind the wide range of possible interpretations of key parts of Scripture like creation and atonement.  As a matter of fact, the mere observation alone that we find a multitude of voices within Scripture itself, describing the same narrative in different ways, should caution us to exclude too quickly those views which don&#39;t seem to fit within a particular framework of theology.  </p>
<p>This is not a call to emancipation from Scripture nor pure relativism.  It is an attempt to take seriously the limitations of our individual perceptions and be intentional about listening to voices outside our comfort zones, even if that presents a challenge to reexamine those beliefs we hold most dearly.</p>
<p>The way I understand Emergent Village &#8211; it is a place where people can safely voice their opinions, questions, beliefs and share their personal journey in a mutually respectful conversation where uniformity of doctrinal position is neither an entry requirement nor the desired goal.  It comes from an understanding that relationship is at the heart of the Gospel, not a dead orthodoxy (although I&#39;m well aware that only too easily false dichotomies can be created here that pit the way of believing against the content of belief itself &#8211; that is certainly not my intent!).</p>
<p>Just as a side note &#8211; have you read John Franke&#39;s &#8220;Manifold Witness&#8221;?  I think he&#39;s making a very strong case for a biblically based irreducible plurality of truth grounded in the trinitarian nature of God himself.</p>
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		<title>By: jshmueller</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-1067</link>
		<dc:creator>jshmueller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-1067</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, you asked, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Jeremy, I actually share those convictions.  I DO believe that the commitment to the guidance of the Scriptures and (from the viewpoint of that very lense) the tradition of historical communal decisions within the church still play an important role in discerning what is of God and what isn&#039;t.  That doesn&#039;t mean however that we have any real ecumenical consensus today regarding where the biblical canon itself ends, which creeds to include or exclude, never mind the wide range of possible interpretations of key parts of Scripture like creation and atonement.  As a matter of fact, the mere observation alone that we find a multitude of voices within Scripture itself, describing the same narrative in different ways, should caution us to exclude too quickly those views which don&#039;t seem to fit within a particular framework of theology.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is not a call to emancipation from Scripture nor pure relativism.  It is an attempt to take seriously the limitations of our individual perceptions and be intentional about listening to voices outside our comfort zones, even if that presents a challenge to reexamine those beliefs we hold most dearly.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The way I understand Emergent Village - it is a place where people can safely voice their opinions, questions, beliefs and share their personal journey in a mutually respectful conversation where uniformity of doctrinal position is neither an entry requirement nor the desired goal.  It comes from an understanding that relationship is at the heart of the Gospel, not a dead orthodoxy (although I&#039;m well aware that only too easily false dichotomies can be created here that pit the way of believing against the content of belief itself - that is certainly not my intent!).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just as a side note - have you read John Franke&#039;s &quot;Manifold Witness&quot;?  I think he&#039;s making a very strong case for a biblically based irreducible plurality of truth grounded in the trinitarian nature of God himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy, you asked, </p>
<p>&#8220;Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?&#8221;</p>
<p>Jeremy, I actually share those convictions.  I DO believe that the commitment to the guidance of the Scriptures and (from the viewpoint of that very lense) the tradition of historical communal decisions within the church still play an important role in discerning what is of God and what isn&#39;t.  That doesn&#39;t mean however that we have any real ecumenical consensus today regarding where the biblical canon itself ends, which creeds to include or exclude, never mind the wide range of possible interpretations of key parts of Scripture like creation and atonement.  As a matter of fact, the mere observation alone that we find a multitude of voices within Scripture itself, describing the same narrative in different ways, should caution us to exclude too quickly those views which don&#39;t seem to fit within a particular framework of theology.  </p>
<p>This is not a call to emancipation from Scripture nor pure relativism.  It is an attempt to take seriously the limitations of our individual perceptions and be intentional about listening to voices outside our comfort zones, even if that presents a challenge to reexamine those beliefs we hold most dearly.</p>
<p>The way I understand Emergent Village &#8211; it is a place where people can safely voice their opinions, questions, beliefs and share their personal journey in a mutually respectful conversation where uniformity of doctrinal position is neither an entry requirement nor the desired goal.  It comes from an understanding that relationship is at the heart of the Gospel, not a dead orthodoxy (although I&#39;m well aware that only too easily false dichotomies can be created here that pit the way of believing against the content of belief itself &#8211; that is certainly not my intent!).</p>
<p>Just as a side note &#8211; have you read John Franke&#39;s &#8220;Manifold Witness&#8221;?  I think he&#39;s making a very strong case for a biblically based irreducible plurality of truth grounded in the trinitarian nature of God himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Brink</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-521</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Brink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-521</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, you said, &quot;Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#039;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Can you unpack this a little so I don&#039;t misunderstand you?  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy, you said, &#8220;Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#39;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can you unpack this a little so I don&#39;t misunderstand you?  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Brink</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-1068</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Brink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-1068</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, you said, &quot;Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#039;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Can you unpack this a little so I don&#039;t misunderstand you?  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy, you said, &#8220;Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#39;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can you unpack this a little so I don&#39;t misunderstand you?  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: ron cole</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-520</link>
		<dc:creator>ron cole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-520</guid>
		<description>Jeremy amen brother. I guess will still have to get through the baby stage...dirty diapers, spitting up know and then, cleaning up messes now a then. But, I&#039;m excited lets raise this baby together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy amen brother. I guess will still have to get through the baby stage&#8230;dirty diapers, spitting up know and then, cleaning up messes now a then. But, I&#39;m excited lets raise this baby together.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Cole</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-1069</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Cole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-1069</guid>
		<description>Jeremy amen brother. I guess will still have to get through the baby stage...dirty diapers, spitting up know and then, cleaning up messes now a then. But, I&#039;m excited lets raise this baby together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy amen brother. I guess will still have to get through the baby stage&#8230;dirty diapers, spitting up know and then, cleaning up messes now a then. But, I&#39;m excited lets raise this baby together.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy bouma</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy bouma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-519</guid>
		<description>@jshmuller—&quot;Now even if he can successfully demonstrate that, the question still remains what you do with that.&quot; While I have said before that I am NOT simply knitting Pagitt and Pelagius together (my intent is to analyze their writings side by side), that will certainly be the question.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;And who would be the &quot;magisterium&quot; that will define what is still Christian and what is not?&quot; Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;@ron cole—&quot;...the water has broken.&quot; nice analogy. I think you&#039;re right. I think the time is long over due. Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#039;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jshmuller—&#8221;Now even if he can successfully demonstrate that, the question still remains what you do with that.&#8221; While I have said before that I am NOT simply knitting Pagitt and Pelagius together (my intent is to analyze their writings side by side), that will certainly be the question.</p>
<p>&#8220;And who would be the &#8220;magisterium&#8221; that will define what is still Christian and what is not?&#8221; Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?</p>
<p>@ron cole—&#8221;&#8230;the water has broken.&#8221; nice analogy. I think you&#39;re right. I think the time is long over due. Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#39;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy bouma</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-1066</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy bouma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-1066</guid>
		<description>@jshmuller—&quot;Now even if he can successfully demonstrate that, the question still remains what you do with that.&quot; While I have said before that I am NOT simply knitting Pagitt and Pelagius together (my intent is to analyze their writings side by side), that will certainly be the question.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;And who would be the &quot;magisterium&quot; that will define what is still Christian and what is not?&quot; Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;@ron cole—&quot;...the water has broken.&quot; nice analogy. I think you&#039;re right. I think the time is long over due. Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#039;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jshmuller—&#8221;Now even if he can successfully demonstrate that, the question still remains what you do with that.&#8221; While I have said before that I am NOT simply knitting Pagitt and Pelagius together (my intent is to analyze their writings side by side), that will certainly be the question.</p>
<p>&#8220;And who would be the &#8220;magisterium&#8221; that will define what is still Christian and what is not?&#8221; Do you believe that the Christian faith has happened in a historical vacuum? Has not the Holy Spirit been actively involved in the progression of the Christian faith? Do we not have Textual Revelation, given to us in an approachable, understandable manner for understanding how we are to relate to God, others, each other, and the world?</p>
<p>@ron cole—&#8221;&#8230;the water has broken.&#8221; nice analogy. I think you&#39;re right. I think the time is long over due. Perhaps if the conversation wasn&#39;t so petrified at the beginning of establishing some THINGS upon which the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ was founded, what will be birth would now be a toddler.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Brink</title>
		<link>http://jonathanbrink.com/2010/02/12/hitting-the-wall-with-emergence/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Brink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=7#comment-518</guid>
		<description>Ron, I&#039;ve now read half of Brian&#039;s book and the pregnant analogy is the one thing that really stuck out to me so far.  I think he&#039;s right.  Something is on the way.  As I read Brian&#039;s book I didn&#039;t quite share his conclusion to the narrative question, which I think shapes the rest of the book.  I think he limited the conclusion rather than opened it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, I&#39;ve now read half of Brian&#39;s book and the pregnant analogy is the one thing that really stuck out to me so far.  I think he&#39;s right.  Something is on the way.  As I read Brian&#39;s book I didn&#39;t quite share his conclusion to the narrative question, which I think shapes the rest of the book.  I think he limited the conclusion rather than opened it up.</p>
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