Comments on: The Central Problem Of Missional http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-central-problem-of-missional Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:00:30 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: jshmueller http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-423 jshmueller Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:50:22 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-423 My best guess would be that "first" in this case means "of first importance and therefore first in the decalogue", not first in the temporal order. The Genesis reference is about the first temptation in that realm, not about a commandment addressing it. In other words: the temptation to play God was clearly there before the first of the ten commandments addressed it explicitly.<br><br>In my view, it's not the conscious and deliberate disobedience regarding God's will and law that is the heart of the problem but the buying into an alternative story that promises us a better and more glorious outcome than the one God is inviting us into. My best guess would be that “first” in this case means “of first importance and therefore first in the decalogue”, not first in the temporal order. The Genesis reference is about the first temptation in that realm, not about a commandment addressing it. In other words: the temptation to play God was clearly there before the first of the ten commandments addressed it explicitly.

In my view, it's not the conscious and deliberate disobedience regarding God's will and law that is the heart of the problem but the buying into an alternative story that promises us a better and more glorious outcome than the one God is inviting us into.

]]> By: jshmueller http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-1150 jshmueller Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:50:22 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-1150 My best guess would be that "first" in this case means "of first importance and therefore first in the decalogue", not first in the temporal order. The Genesis reference is about the first temptation in that realm, not about a commandment addressing it. In other words: the temptation to play God was clearly there before the first of the ten commandments addressed it explicitly.<br><br>In my view, it's not the conscious and deliberate disobedience regarding God's will and law that is the heart of the problem but the buying into an alternative story that promises us a better and more glorious outcome than the one God is inviting us into. My best guess would be that “first” in this case means “of first importance and therefore first in the decalogue”, not first in the temporal order. The Genesis reference is about the first temptation in that realm, not about a commandment addressing it. In other words: the temptation to play God was clearly there before the first of the ten commandments addressed it explicitly.

In my view, it's not the conscious and deliberate disobedience regarding God's will and law that is the heart of the problem but the buying into an alternative story that promises us a better and more glorious outcome than the one God is inviting us into.

]]> By: Jonathan Brink http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-418 Jonathan Brink Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:35:49 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-418 Sarah, you and I follow similar paths. Sarah, you and I follow similar paths.

]]> By: Jonathan Brink http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-1154 Jonathan Brink Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:35:49 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-1154 Sarah, you and I follow similar paths. Sarah, you and I follow similar paths.

]]> By: Jonathan Brink http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-420 Jonathan Brink Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:35:13 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-420 Adam, thanks.<br><br>This closely aligns to the Evangelical tradition I grew up in. Adam, thanks.

This closely aligns to the Evangelical tradition I grew up in.

]]> By: Jonathan Brink http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-1152 Jonathan Brink Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:35:13 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-1152 Adam, thanks.<br><br>This closely aligns to the Evangelical tradition I grew up in. Adam, thanks.

This closely aligns to the Evangelical tradition I grew up in.

]]> By: Jonathan Brink http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-422 Jonathan Brink Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:33:34 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-422 Josh, thanks for that. What caught my attention is the line, "violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.'" The reference is to Gen 3:5, but the actual verse is in reference to the Ten Commandments. So the first is actually not the first. <br><br>Just wondering why they would say that? Josh, thanks for that. What caught my attention is the line, “violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.'” The reference is to Gen 3:5, but the actual verse is in reference to the Ten Commandments. So the first is actually not the first.

Just wondering why they would say that?

]]> By: Jonathan Brink http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-1149 Jonathan Brink Tue, 08 Dec 2009 14:33:34 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-1149 Josh, thanks for that. What caught my attention is the line, "violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.'" The reference is to Gen 3:5, but the actual verse is in reference to the Ten Commandments. So the first is actually not the first. <br><br>Just wondering why they would say that? Josh, thanks for that. What caught my attention is the line, “violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.'” The reference is to Gen 3:5, but the actual verse is in reference to the Ten Commandments. So the first is actually not the first.

Just wondering why they would say that?

]]> By: jshmueller http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-421 jshmueller Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:35:25 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-421 I've grown up in the Lutheran tradition and I still value some insights and points of emphasis from the Reformation period. I picked up a pamphlet from a Lutheran church in our neighborhood yesterday and here is how the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau is wording it:<br><br>"Humankind is entrapped in the ancient temptation to play God (Gen.3:5), violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.' Liberation from this original sin comes through faith of at least two people - one who tells another of Christ as the source of freedom from sin, and one who, so addressed, affirms faith in Christ alone. The Christian life is one in which, though we are sinners by nature, we are at the same time saints by God's grace and love. The Christian life is lived in two realms that belong equally to God - church and society. This calls for Christian commitment to education, fair economic practices, and a life of mission to the ungodly. And so, the church is born again and again, vigilant against the sin of idolatry (playing God) and confident that trust in Christ alone (justification by faith) is the only source of freedom and salvation. The Christian thus freed is called to serve all God's children in the world." [end of quote]<br><br>What I appreciate is the emphasis on the continuing struggle and temptation of wanting to play God. The description of freedom in Christ consequently has to be dynamic rather than static. Within evangelical circles it's also rare to hear society mentioned as an equal realm of importance where this newfound freedom ought to unfold its influence.<br><br>I'm still not quite happy with the rather formulaic wording of "trust in Christ alone" and "justification by faith". For most people, this would have to be unpacked much further in order to illustrate how Jesus and trust in Him present a practical and efficient solution to the original problem. I've grown up in the Lutheran tradition and I still value some insights and points of emphasis from the Reformation period. I picked up a pamphlet from a Lutheran church in our neighborhood yesterday and here is how the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau is wording it:

“Humankind is entrapped in the ancient temptation to play God (Gen.3:5), violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.' Liberation from this original sin comes through faith of at least two people – one who tells another of Christ as the source of freedom from sin, and one who, so addressed, affirms faith in Christ alone. The Christian life is one in which, though we are sinners by nature, we are at the same time saints by God's grace and love. The Christian life is lived in two realms that belong equally to God – church and society. This calls for Christian commitment to education, fair economic practices, and a life of mission to the ungodly. And so, the church is born again and again, vigilant against the sin of idolatry (playing God) and confident that trust in Christ alone (justification by faith) is the only source of freedom and salvation. The Christian thus freed is called to serve all God's children in the world.” [end of quote]

What I appreciate is the emphasis on the continuing struggle and temptation of wanting to play God. The description of freedom in Christ consequently has to be dynamic rather than static. Within evangelical circles it's also rare to hear society mentioned as an equal realm of importance where this newfound freedom ought to unfold its influence.

I'm still not quite happy with the rather formulaic wording of “trust in Christ alone” and “justification by faith”. For most people, this would have to be unpacked much further in order to illustrate how Jesus and trust in Him present a practical and efficient solution to the original problem.

]]> By: jshmueller http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/12/02/the-central-problem-of-missional/#comment-1148 jshmueller Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:35:25 +0000 http://jonathanbrink.com/?p=186#comment-1148 I've grown up in the Lutheran tradition and I still value some insights and points of emphasis from the Reformation period. I picked up a pamphlet from a Lutheran church in our neighborhood yesterday and here is how the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau is wording it:<br><br>"Humankind is entrapped in the ancient temptation to play God (Gen.3:5), violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.' Liberation from this original sin comes through faith of at least two people - one who tells another of Christ as the source of freedom from sin, and one who, so addressed, affirms faith in Christ alone. The Christian life is one in which, though we are sinners by nature, we are at the same time saints by God's grace and love. The Christian life is lived in two realms that belong equally to God - church and society. This calls for Christian commitment to education, fair economic practices, and a life of mission to the ungodly. And so, the church is born again and again, vigilant against the sin of idolatry (playing God) and confident that trust in Christ alone (justification by faith) is the only source of freedom and salvation. The Christian thus freed is called to serve all God's children in the world." [end of quote]<br><br>What I appreciate is the emphasis on the continuing struggle and temptation of wanting to play God. The description of freedom in Christ consequently has to be dynamic rather than static. Within evangelical circles it's also rare to hear society mentioned as an equal realm of importance where this newfound freedom ought to unfold its influence.<br><br>I'm still not quite happy with the rather formulaic wording of "trust in Christ alone" and "justification by faith". For most people, this would have to be unpacked much further in order to illustrate how Jesus and trust in Him present a practical and efficient solution to the original problem. I've grown up in the Lutheran tradition and I still value some insights and points of emphasis from the Reformation period. I picked up a pamphlet from a Lutheran church in our neighborhood yesterday and here is how the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau is wording it:

“Humankind is entrapped in the ancient temptation to play God (Gen.3:5), violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.' Liberation from this original sin comes through faith of at least two people – one who tells another of Christ as the source of freedom from sin, and one who, so addressed, affirms faith in Christ alone. The Christian life is one in which, though we are sinners by nature, we are at the same time saints by God's grace and love. The Christian life is lived in two realms that belong equally to God – church and society. This calls for Christian commitment to education, fair economic practices, and a life of mission to the ungodly. And so, the church is born again and again, vigilant against the sin of idolatry (playing God) and confident that trust in Christ alone (justification by faith) is the only source of freedom and salvation. The Christian thus freed is called to serve all God's children in the world.” [end of quote]

What I appreciate is the emphasis on the continuing struggle and temptation of wanting to play God. The description of freedom in Christ consequently has to be dynamic rather than static. Within evangelical circles it's also rare to hear society mentioned as an equal realm of importance where this newfound freedom ought to unfold its influence.

I'm still not quite happy with the rather formulaic wording of “trust in Christ alone” and “justification by faith”. For most people, this would have to be unpacked much further in order to illustrate how Jesus and trust in Him present a practical and efficient solution to the original problem.

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