The Central Problem Of Missional
I need your help…and I’m also curious.
I’m working on a project and am doing a little research on what it means to be missional. This is totally informal but I’m doing it anyway. Hopefully my question gets to the heart of much of our frustration with what it means to be missional. My question is this:
“What does your tradition tell you is the central problem being solved in the Christian story?’
Much of my wonder is around how we solve the problem in the human story. In order to solve the problem, we have to know what problem we’re actually solving. So the theory is that if we attempt to solve the wrong problem it will create new problems. And if different traditions teach different understandings of the problem, new problems are essentially inevitable.
Feel free to elaborate as much as you need in the comments below. Don’t feel like you have to prove or justify what your tradition teaches. I simply want to hear what you hear your tradition teaching.
pballard14
The problem that I've been taught is that the human race doesn't rely on God. The Bible is full of stories of how God is trying to get us to rely on Him. He is a God of love and wants that love to be reciprocated to Him and to each other. Missional means we have some type of mission of something and from someone. Jesus got his mission from God. We look to Jesus as an example of how to carry out this mission. The mission is carried out by telling everyone of God's love by loving them. By caring for the sick, the poor, the lost, the hurt, etc etc. I like to keep it simple and hopefully this is what you are looking for. This is my tradition that was taught.
pballard14
The problem that I've been taught is that the human race doesn't rely on God. The Bible is full of stories of how God is trying to get us to rely on Him. He is a God of love and wants that love to be reciprocated to Him and to each other. Missional means we have some type of mission of something and from someone. Jesus got his mission from God. We look to Jesus as an example of how to carry out this mission. The mission is carried out by telling everyone of God's love by loving them. By caring for the sick, the poor, the lost, the hurt, etc etc. I like to keep it simple and hopefully this is what you are looking for. This is my tradition that was taught.
Jonathan Brink
Thanks. You said, “Missional means we have some type of mission of something and from someone.” Does this mean you don't really know what the mission is?
Also, so what you heard is that the central problem is humanity doesn't rely on God? Is that what you are saying? What tradition do you come from?
Jonathan Brink
Thanks. You said, “Missional means we have some type of mission of something and from someone.” Does this mean you don't really know what the mission is?
Also, so what you heard is that the central problem is humanity doesn't rely on God? Is that what you are saying? What tradition do you come from?
pballard14
Sorry, I answered the missional question in the next sentences.
“Jesus got his mission from God. We look to Jesus as an example of how to carry out this mission. The mission is carried out by telling everyone of God's love by loving them. By caring for the sick, the poor, the lost, the hurt, etc etc.”
Yes I believe the central problem is humanity doesn't rely on God. Probably not the best way to word it, but that's what I'm going with. Or the central problem of sin, doing everything under our own understanding and not relying on God's understanding. I grew up in Nazarene/Wesleyan churches.
pballard14
Sorry, I answered the missional question in the next sentences.
“Jesus got his mission from God. We look to Jesus as an example of how to carry out this mission. The mission is carried out by telling everyone of God's love by loving them. By caring for the sick, the poor, the lost, the hurt, etc etc.”
Yes I believe the central problem is humanity doesn't rely on God. Probably not the best way to word it, but that's what I'm going with. Or the central problem of sin, doing everything under our own understanding and not relying on God's understanding. I grew up in Nazarene/Wesleyan churches.
Steve
Thanks for your question. I'm from a pentecostal tradition, where the central problem to be solved by Christianity (as far as I can figure) is where one spends the afterlife. The Sinner's Prayer is the golden ticket, and attendance to Church is key to getting that ticket punched. Most would argue I'm misrepresenting the Church – that following Jesus is key, but it's my opinion that when you begin to strip it back with most pente adherents, we find that Jesus wants us to go to church so we can “develop a deeper relationship with Him”. The church is central to spiritual growth, and a number of 'tools' are used to keep believers attending so that the Church (communally and corporately) feels like it is achieving its mission of assisting people into eternal life sans sulphur.
Steve
Thanks for your question. I'm from a pentecostal tradition, where the central problem to be solved by Christianity (as far as I can figure) is where one spends the afterlife. The Sinner's Prayer is the golden ticket, and attendance to Church is key to getting that ticket punched. Most would argue I'm misrepresenting the Church – that following Jesus is key, but it's my opinion that when you begin to strip it back with most pente adherents, we find that Jesus wants us to go to church so we can “develop a deeper relationship with Him”. The church is central to spiritual growth, and a number of 'tools' are used to keep believers attending so that the Church (communally and corporately) feels like it is achieving its mission of assisting people into eternal life sans sulphur.
Steve
Thanks for your question. I'm from a pentecostal tradition, where the central problem to be solved by Christianity (as far as I can figure) is where one spends the afterlife. The Sinner's Prayer is the golden ticket, and attendance to Church is key to getting that ticket punched. Most would argue I'm misrepresenting the Church – that following Jesus is key, but it's my opinion that when you begin to strip it back with most pente adherents, we find that Jesus wants us to go to church so we can “develop a deeper relationship with Him”. The church is central to spiritual growth, and a number of 'tools' are used to keep believers attending so that the Church (communally and corporately) feels like it is achieving its mission of assisting people into eternal life sans sulphur.
Steve
Thanks for your question. I'm from a pentecostal tradition, where the central problem to be solved by Christianity (as far as I can figure) is where one spends the afterlife. The Sinner's Prayer is the golden ticket, and attendance to Church is key to getting that ticket punched. Most would argue I'm misrepresenting the Church – that following Jesus is key, but it's my opinion that when you begin to strip it back with most pente adherents, we find that Jesus wants us to go to church so we can “develop a deeper relationship with Him”. The church is central to spiritual growth, and a number of 'tools' are used to keep believers attending so that the Church (communally and corporately) feels like it is achieving its mission of assisting people into eternal life sans sulphur.
mattmcgraw
Hey Jonathan,
I am…. tradition-less… for lack of a better term. I was raised in a very conservative, evangelical church. I have found hope in the Episcopal church. I found Jesus in a non-denominational church in Las Vegas, NV of all places. Let me answer what I think is the central problem being solved in the Christian story:
Repairing a relationship to repair all relationships.
By this I mean, our relationship with our Creator-God was broken in the Fall. Our Lord Jesus Christ came to earth to repair this relationship; to give us our Father (Abba) back. When we allow our relationship to our Creator-God to be repaired, we then have the model to repair any and all other relationships through the power of the Holy Spirit.
God Bless You, Brother
Matt
mattmcgraw
Hey Jonathan,
I am…. tradition-less… for lack of a better term. I was raised in a very conservative, evangelical church. I have found hope in the Episcopal church. I found Jesus in a non-denominational church in Las Vegas, NV of all places. Let me answer what I think is the central problem being solved in the Christian story:
Repairing a relationship to repair all relationships.
By this I mean, our relationship with our Creator-God was broken in the Fall. Our Lord Jesus Christ came to earth to repair this relationship; to give us our Father (Abba) back. When we allow our relationship to our Creator-God to be repaired, we then have the model to repair any and all other relationships through the power of the Holy Spirit.
God Bless You, Brother
Matt
JamesBrett
The tradition from which I come tells me the problem being solved is that man was/is separated from God by sin, and needs to be rescued and made right with God again. The tradition's greater focus within that problem is on the forgiveness of sin — and they are very individualistic in these views (as in don't substitute “mankind” for “man” in the first sentence above — I don't think that would be spoken, but it's ingrained deep in the thought process).
JamesBrett
The tradition from which I come tells me the problem being solved is that man was/is separated from God by sin, and needs to be rescued and made right with God again. The tradition's greater focus within that problem is on the forgiveness of sin — and they are very individualistic in these views (as in don't substitute “mankind” for “man” in the first sentence above — I don't think that would be spoken, but it's ingrained deep in the thought process).
sarooney
I like this post. This is one of those absolutely foundational questions that really get us thinking.
I too grew up with a “sin separates us from God” paradigm where getting into the club (church) and “accepting Jesus into your life” through repentance – was the solution to the human problem. So sin (understood mostly as behaviors and attitudes) and sin's painful consequences were the problem to be solved. Changing those behaviors and serving God were the solutions. (In the background, of course, was the threat of hell and the reward of heaven).
I now believe that the biggest human problem (which arose from the fall) was shame. And out of shame, hiding and alienation. *This* is the problem to be solved. I would argue that all sin can be traced back to shame, and shame itself is the result of the fall. Jesus carries our shame, alienation, sin, distortion etc. to the cross and kills it (and us in that state), buries it (and us), and resurrects us into an entirely shame-less creature who knows (s)he belongs, knows (s)he is perfectly loved.
I also now believe that Jesus brought us into His life, not the other way 'round. We don't accept Jesus into our lives, Jesus accepts us into the very relationship He has with His Father. So now life can be freely enjoyed as it was meant to be. Without shame, or if you prefer, freedom from shame. I think *this* is kingdom life – life with God. Relational more than behavioral. From the inside, rather than from the outside.
I guess I believe our mission would first be to live in this reality ourselves. And secondly, to minister healing and restoration from shame to others. This is what I see Jesus doing all through the gospels… basically communicating to people that their distortions of God are false, and correcting these perceptions by displaying His extravagant love. Or rather, just by being who He was – His relationship with Father was such *life* that when He was around other people, this life exposed everyone's “unlife” – or lack of true life. He truly created crisis everywhere He went – for some, it was a phenomenal life-giving crisis, for others, it was an enraging 'let's kill Him' crisis.
sarooney
I like this post. This is one of those absolutely foundational questions that really get us thinking.
I too grew up with a “sin separates us from God” paradigm where getting into the club (church) and “accepting Jesus into your life” through repentance – was the solution to the human problem. So sin (understood mostly as behaviors and attitudes) and sin's painful consequences were the problem to be solved. Changing those behaviors and serving God were the solutions. (In the background, of course, was the threat of hell and the reward of heaven).
I now believe that the biggest human problem (which arose from the fall) was shame. And out of shame, hiding and alienation. *This* is the problem to be solved. I would argue that all sin can be traced back to shame, and shame itself is the result of the fall. Jesus carries our shame, alienation, sin, distortion etc. to the cross and kills it (and us in that state), buries it (and us), and resurrects us into an entirely shame-less creature who knows (s)he belongs, knows (s)he is perfectly loved.
I also now believe that Jesus brought us into His life, not the other way 'round. We don't accept Jesus into our lives, Jesus accepts us into the very relationship He has with His Father. So now life can be freely enjoyed as it was meant to be. Without shame, or if you prefer, freedom from shame. I think *this* is kingdom life – life with God. Relational more than behavioral. From the inside, rather than from the outside.
I guess I believe our mission would first be to live in this reality ourselves. And secondly, to minister healing and restoration from shame to others. This is what I see Jesus doing all through the gospels… basically communicating to people that their distortions of God are false, and correcting these perceptions by displaying His extravagant love. Or rather, just by being who He was – His relationship with Father was such *life* that when He was around other people, this life exposed everyone's “unlife” – or lack of true life. He truly created crisis everywhere He went – for some, it was a phenomenal life-giving crisis, for others, it was an enraging 'let's kill Him' crisis.
AdamLehman
Christianity in general has taught: the problem = your heart/flesh/mind. is bad.
The narrative scripture teaches (in my opinion): the problem = humanity has a broken relationship with God and others.
Missional teaches (in my opinion): the problem = stuff is broken, let's get to work
AdamLehman
Christianity in general has taught: the problem = your heart/flesh/mind. is bad.
The narrative scripture teaches (in my opinion): the problem = humanity has a broken relationship with God and others.
Missional teaches (in my opinion): the problem = stuff is broken, let's get to work
jshmueller
I've grown up in the Lutheran tradition and I still value some insights and points of emphasis from the Reformation period. I picked up a pamphlet from a Lutheran church in our neighborhood yesterday and here is how the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau is wording it:
“Humankind is entrapped in the ancient temptation to play God (Gen.3:5), violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.' Liberation from this original sin comes through faith of at least two people – one who tells another of Christ as the source of freedom from sin, and one who, so addressed, affirms faith in Christ alone. The Christian life is one in which, though we are sinners by nature, we are at the same time saints by God's grace and love. The Christian life is lived in two realms that belong equally to God – church and society. This calls for Christian commitment to education, fair economic practices, and a life of mission to the ungodly. And so, the church is born again and again, vigilant against the sin of idolatry (playing God) and confident that trust in Christ alone (justification by faith) is the only source of freedom and salvation. The Christian thus freed is called to serve all God's children in the world.” [end of quote]
What I appreciate is the emphasis on the continuing struggle and temptation of wanting to play God. The description of freedom in Christ consequently has to be dynamic rather than static. Within evangelical circles it's also rare to hear society mentioned as an equal realm of importance where this newfound freedom ought to unfold its influence.
I'm still not quite happy with the rather formulaic wording of “trust in Christ alone” and “justification by faith”. For most people, this would have to be unpacked much further in order to illustrate how Jesus and trust in Him present a practical and efficient solution to the original problem.
jshmueller
I've grown up in the Lutheran tradition and I still value some insights and points of emphasis from the Reformation period. I picked up a pamphlet from a Lutheran church in our neighborhood yesterday and here is how the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau is wording it:
“Humankind is entrapped in the ancient temptation to play God (Gen.3:5), violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.' Liberation from this original sin comes through faith of at least two people – one who tells another of Christ as the source of freedom from sin, and one who, so addressed, affirms faith in Christ alone. The Christian life is one in which, though we are sinners by nature, we are at the same time saints by God's grace and love. The Christian life is lived in two realms that belong equally to God – church and society. This calls for Christian commitment to education, fair economic practices, and a life of mission to the ungodly. And so, the church is born again and again, vigilant against the sin of idolatry (playing God) and confident that trust in Christ alone (justification by faith) is the only source of freedom and salvation. The Christian thus freed is called to serve all God's children in the world.” [end of quote]
What I appreciate is the emphasis on the continuing struggle and temptation of wanting to play God. The description of freedom in Christ consequently has to be dynamic rather than static. Within evangelical circles it's also rare to hear society mentioned as an equal realm of importance where this newfound freedom ought to unfold its influence.
I'm still not quite happy with the rather formulaic wording of “trust in Christ alone” and “justification by faith”. For most people, this would have to be unpacked much further in order to illustrate how Jesus and trust in Him present a practical and efficient solution to the original problem.
Jonathan Brink
Josh, thanks for that. What caught my attention is the line, “violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.'” The reference is to Gen 3:5, but the actual verse is in reference to the Ten Commandments. So the first is actually not the first.
Just wondering why they would say that?
Jonathan Brink
Josh, thanks for that. What caught my attention is the line, “violating the first of all divine commandments, 'You shall have no other gods.'” The reference is to Gen 3:5, but the actual verse is in reference to the Ten Commandments. So the first is actually not the first.
Just wondering why they would say that?
Jonathan Brink
Adam, thanks.
This closely aligns to the Evangelical tradition I grew up in.
Jonathan Brink
Adam, thanks.
This closely aligns to the Evangelical tradition I grew up in.
Jonathan Brink
Sarah, you and I follow similar paths.
Jonathan Brink
Sarah, you and I follow similar paths.
Jonathan Brink
Josh, thanks for that. What caught my attention is the line, “violating the first of all divine commandments, ‘You shall have no other gods.’” The reference is to Gen 3:5, but the actual verse is in reference to the Ten Commandments. So the first is actually not the first. nnJust wondering why they would say that?
Jonathan Brink
Sarah, you and I follow similar paths.
Jonathan Brink
Adam, thanks.nnThis closely aligns to the Evangelical tradition I grew up in.
jshmueller
My best guess would be that “first” in this case means “of first importance and therefore first in the decalogue”, not first in the temporal order. The Genesis reference is about the first temptation in that realm, not about a commandment addressing it. In other words: the temptation to play God was clearly there before the first of the ten commandments addressed it explicitly.
In my view, it's not the conscious and deliberate disobedience regarding God's will and law that is the heart of the problem but the buying into an alternative story that promises us a better and more glorious outcome than the one God is inviting us into.
jshmueller
My best guess would be that “first” in this case means “of first importance and therefore first in the decalogue”, not first in the temporal order. The Genesis reference is about the first temptation in that realm, not about a commandment addressing it. In other words: the temptation to play God was clearly there before the first of the ten commandments addressed it explicitly.
In my view, it's not the conscious and deliberate disobedience regarding God's will and law that is the heart of the problem but the buying into an alternative story that promises us a better and more glorious outcome than the one God is inviting us into.
jshmueller
My best guess would be that “first” in this case means “of first importance and therefore first in the decalogue”, not first in the temporal order. The Genesis reference is about the first temptation in that realm, not about a commandment addressing it. In other words: the temptation to play God was clearly there before the first of the ten commandments addressed it explicitly.rnrnIn my view, it’s not the conscious and deliberate disobedience regarding God’s will and law that is the heart of the problem but the buying into an alternative story that promises us a better and more glorious outcome than the one God is inviting us into.