We Love You Ken Silva

Posted by Jonathan Brink
October 26, 2009

Recently Ken Silva, of Apprising Ministries linked to my site. His post was critical of a post I had written on Bernard Clairvaux’s Four Degrees of Love.  His link completely ignored half of my post, instead choosing to focus on the part that would fit his judgment.  I couldn’t respond on his site because, well…Ken has turned off the comments on his sites.  It doesn’t really bother me.  Ken is introducing people to my blog who I would rarely ever reach so its not all that bad.

It’s kind of strange in some ways being the target of judgment by a fellow brother who knows virtually nothing about me.  Ken has never come to me one on one in private and confronted me, or listened to my side of the story, or why I believe what I write about.  He simply made judgments about me.  In the end, I get people like Ken.

Ken’s only power is in his capacity to scream, shout, and hopefully convince me that I’m a heretic.  I don’t share Ken’s opinions about my theology but it wouldn’t be the first time someone called someone else a heretic.  Jesus was called a heretic.  Luther was called a heretic.  Galileo was called a heretic.  Yet each won out by holding onto truth.  In the end Jesus is my judge and I’m very comfortable with that.  Like I’ve said many times my faith in NOT in my belief system. I don’t think I’m smart enough to figure it ALL out.  I’m very confident that I will get some stuff wrong.  My faith is in the PERSON of Jesus.

And I began thinking about people like Ken, who build an entire identity on judging other Christian’s in the name of God. Who cares that Jesus says don’t do this. It doesn’t really matter. Ken feels that this is what he is called to do. And his power lies in the fact that we respond. We don’t turn the other cheek or walk away from the argument.  I see many friends get pretty upset at his comments.

It actually wasn’t the first time and because I write about Emergence it probably won’t be the last.  Last year, Ken actually came and commented on my site.  It felt kind of strange to be honest. I had written about Phyllis Tickle’s The Great Emergence conference, sharing the dialog on the end of Sola Scriptura.  Much of his judgment over me appears to do with Emergence Christianity.  And to be fair, Ken was very gracious in his comments on my site. He said,

“About three years ago God took me in a different direction. He revealed that what the Emerging Church was doing was absolutely not a move of His, but He allowed it to provoke His followers to finally stand up for the genuine Gospel of Jesus Christ. And so Apprising Ministries was born.

So Jonathan since we’re diametrically opposed, which of our subjective “feelings” is really from God ? Something serious to think about.”

And I said,

“I guess the only real test is the fruit of our ministries Ken. I would say this. If what I am doing does not produce love then I am the one who is in the wrong.

I absolutely believe in what I said. Ten years from now the emerging church will look radically different, but it will only be true if it produces a theology based on love.

But these two experiences got me thinking. What would be the best way to approach Ken and those in the future? What would be the best way to reveal the love that I was talking about? People like Ken need to know the love. They need to know what it feels like to have someone turn the other cheek. They need to know what it feels like when we don’t fire back with a smart, quick, snappy, yet angry answer that only seems to produce more heat.

In the words of the poet, Lenny Kravitz, “Let Love Rule.”So when Ken Silva comes to my site, the ONLY response I will give him is, “We Love You Ken Silva.” If he throws heat…”We Love You Ken Silva.” If he offends my mother…”We Love You Ken Silva.” If he says I am going to hell…”We Love You Ken Silva.” It’s that simple. I’m going to resist the urge to pop off with some witty comment that would make my mother proud.

I invite you to join me if you so wish.  Steal the banner if you need to.  It’s meant to be harmless in a fun way.  Do we in the emerging church really stand for something or are we just gonna talk about it all day? Is the kingdom really about love? This is our opportunity to show some love to a brother who really needs it. Simple, clean fun my friends. Now lets get lovin’.

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Conflict, Humanity, Love

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  • pastorboy
    What is love; or more accurately, what kind of love is it that you speak about?

    Is it love if it is devoid of truth?

    I recently met with a pastor whom I have criticized for what I believe is his error. He did not receive it as love, but that was my motive. When I warn unbelievers that judgment is coming, it is out of love, it is not for some sick pleasure I get out of warning people.

    Jesus warned people continually out of love. In John 5-10 he warned the people as he taught them. The people, particularly the Pharisees and other religious types hated what Jesus said so much that, by my count, they wanted to kill him 9 times. Their response was murderous hatred towards the most loving person ever.

    Ken Silva is not perfect (nor am I), but what he is doing as a watchman on the wall is warning people about false teaching infiltrating the church. His observations cause people to hate him and his ministry. It is not love to falsely say I love you as a response if your heart is not truly in it, in fact it is hate. Dismiss him as a person, dismiss his ministry, but do not throw out the truth of the scriptures he is preaching by saying I love you. He is saying I love you by warning the true Church.

    This demonstration by you is not a love demonstration, it is a hate demonstration. It is a response of grace and peace devoid of meaning. The love of the emergent movement is a false love, because it is demonstrated in a manner devoid of truth. It is not loving to tell a homosexual that their sin will not be judged, that they can live in a lifestyle of their choosing that is condemned in scripture and still be a Christian. It is not love to allow the heterosexual person to be unfaithful to their spouse or commit fornication (any sex outside of marriage) and claim to be a Christian. It is not love to tell a person that belief in any god and good moral behavior will allow them into the kingdom. All these actions by emergent, demonstrated in their gatherings, are love devoid of truth, humanistic in scope, and will ultimately result in continued rebellion towards God and His Word, and ultimate judgment on the last day.

    I love emergent, I love homosexuals, I love fornicators, I love liars, I love thieves, I love Muslims, I love Jews, I love Athiests, I love agnostics, I love practitioners of yoga. That is why I will warn them if their teachings or their lifestyles will not allow them to enter the kingdom of heaven. That is why I will share with them the truth that the only way to be cleansed is through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. That is how I will love people, and continue to love them. The greatest love is that wicked sinners like me can be cleansed by the grace of God in Christ, and that in that grace can be changed into a new righteous creature, not led by the flesh but by the Spirit.

    I love you, Jonathan Brink.
  • Good morning Jonathan.

    Maybe it is just me? All off this "love" flowing back and forth seems... "flat", void of sincerity; kind of like the "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" response.

    Anywho... I just wanted to trail on posterboy's thoughts with a reference to Romans 6 & Galatians 5:13-26 for all to take to heart.

    From both of those references, Paul the Apostle does not simply focus on "love" or God's mercy. Paul also points out that though saints are under grace, there is an "obligation" of obedience to Christ, the one whom has purchased your's and my salvation. Galatians 5:13-26 tells us that we were called to be free;from sin, not free to indulge in sin simply because grace has been given by God.

    Romasn 6:1-2
    1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?


    Sure enough there is no law against "love" as Galatians 5:22-23 expresses, however... Paul warns the Galatians and readers today of what the acts of the sinful nature are in Galatians 5:19 summing with:

    I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    .

    The point is that we can say we "love" someone all we want, but true & sincere love comes from our Father above (1st John 4:10), and as Christ the Messiah showed us, His Love for the father was to do His will completely... even dealing with the "dirty" details such as confronting people with their sins...

    1 John 2:5
    But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

    1 John 3:10
    This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.


    Just wanted to share this with you and your readers as it seemed as though 'love" was being exhalted at the expense of other aspects of God's counsel. I recommend reading Colossians 3 as well.

    Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.
    ~ Colossians 3:16


    Grace and peace be with.
  • I haven't said anything to the contrary.

    Love at its core is an action of holding, restoring, or validating someone's dignity. Much of this post is about turning the other cheek. Ken and I see things differently and I chose to respect his dignity regardless of his response.

    We can chase people down reminding them of where we think they are wrong, but at some point we can't ignore that Jesus let people walk away. He didn't go after them. He respected their choice to see things differently.
  • Jonathan,

    Yes, I definitely agree that Jesus didn't chase down or otherwise go after those that rejected Him and His message. To say that Jesus let people walk away though still in their sin is one thing, and I'd say accurate. Not sure that Jesus "respected" their decisions however; to speculate beyond Christ simply letting them exercise their free will would seem more of an opinion than Scriptural.

    A difference between the example you gave and your differences of opinion with Ken Silva is that Jesus was clearly speaking to the unrepentant and to their unbelief. In that respect it seems that you're addressing two different arguments under one blanket.

    I would add that in Galatians, Paul says the following, relating to brother/sisters in Christ...

    Galatians 6:1-2
    1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.


    Grace and peace be with you.
  • We love you too Pastor Boy.
  • pastorboy
    you and the little mouse in your pocket?
  • pastorboymousefetish
    what a jerk
  • chrishpaytas
    I love all of you!
  • "All you need is love; love, love is all you need"
  • lizdyer
    Jonathan - I posted a comment over at Existential Punk but I didn't know if you would see it there so I thought I would drop by here also and say "hear! hear!" You, Brian McLaren, Adele Sakler, Blake Huggins, Kathy Escobar and so many others that I have encountered through the emergent conversation have set an excellent example for me when it comes to encountering people who not just disagree with me but are often rather mean about it. I have to admit that I don't always succeed at showing love in some of the situations but I think that I do better than I would have because I have witnessed the love, humility, patience and goodness from you and so many others in this conversation and it is beautiful and it makes me want to be like that too. Thanks.
  • mattdabbs
    The people who feel they have to shout to make a point rarely to never have anything good to say. I think it is kind of ridiculous that he feels like he should leave comments on other people's site when he is not willing to allow them on his own. It is better to ignore him than to address him publicly like this...then here I go doing the same thing!

    I don't think you are a heretic if that counts for anything.
  • pastorboy
    I agree with you Matt, but id you are truly loving Ken, if you think he is in error, you should address that error. Make sure you do it from scripture, examining the words that he is speaking, not the person you think he is.

    That is real love, not a statement of 'I love you' devoid of truth.
  • Matt, part of this exercise for me was in exploring a redemptive approach to people like Ken. Ignoring him felt like invalidating him, which made me feel like I was doing exactly what I was addressing. I honestly had no concern for confronting him because he likely isn't listening. (And I could be wrong about that.) The only thing that felt true was to express love, assuming his shouting and condemning came from a place of brokenness.
  • mattdabbs
    Good point.
  • I think you're right on track Jonathan.
    We give love and grace out of the overflow of what we've already been given by God and others.
    It's next to impossible to offer something to someone that you haven't experienced yourself. Until we fully understand love and grace - we're gonna have a hard time offering it to others.
  • pastorboy
    amen "until we fully understand love and grace"

    Remember, both of these are transformational. God changes you into His image, as he makes you righteous, not in yourself, but in Him.
  • Brilliant. Love it. And Ken.
  • Thank you.
  • You rock. You really rock. You have struck me as a man of love since I first encountered you online, and you never cease to amaze me. I think I can love Ken too. :-)
  • Thank you Theresa. I loved your post too.
  • Jonathan,

    Can i cross-post this at Existential Punk and Queermergent? i have been in Ken's cross-hairs A LOT and this post is a beautiful reminder of what being a Christ-follower is all about. Email me and let me know. i could never express this as eloquently and graciously and honestly as you have. THANK YOU!

    Warmest Regards and deepest respect & gratitude,

    Adele
    aka
    Existential Punk
  • Absolutely Adele. Take what you want.
  • Thanks so very much, Jonathan! i will cross-post it in a few weeks and let you know when it is up so you can interact with people at Queermergent. YOU RAWK!

    Adele
  • pastorboy
    Ken loves Adele so much that he will share with her that she is lost if she continues to practice homosexuality. That is love with truth. That is what I appreciate about Ken, and what I find lacking in the emergent movement. The love expressed there is devoid of truth, because it accepts all without telling the truth. It is sort of like telling someone you love them because you are walking with them as you cross the street, but you will not warn them about the truck approaching that is about to run them over.
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