Help – Which Denomination Was Jesus?

Posted by Jonathan Brink
August 22, 2007

denom.jpg

Last year I picked up and read “A Generous Orthodoxy” by Brian McLaren. I really liked the book for the reason that it explored the beauty of our differences. I appreciated listening to different traditions than my own. It helped me process the beauty in other ways of thinking.

My formative years were spent in a very loving but small Baptist church. It had the small chapel with the hard pews and the stained glass windows. From junior high through high school I went to a non-denominational church (which is a code word for we don’t want you to realize we really are a denomination) that was located in a former computer technology complex. The church was deeply influence by the Baptists but never said so. In college, I floated attending several high profile mega-churches in Southern California. I couldn’t remember what they were? Nothing really stood out to me other than they were really, really big and had 67,000 different programs that were entertaining.

After marriage, my wife and I chose to specifically find a small church, settling on a church that was from the RCA (Reformed Church of America). It was here that I got my first introduction to a true, distinct denominational mindset. It forced us to wrestle with issues of child baptism and women in leadership, etc. Loved the process. We visited a Lutheran church once for a Christmas Eve service and had to stand for the entire 90 minutes. My wife attended a Greek orthodox church with a friend and also had to stand for 2 hours while she suffocated under the potent fumes of the incense. (No slam intended). I went with the youth group to a Catholic church and appreciated the beauty of the building but don’t remember anything else. When my family moved, we found ourselves attending a small CRC (Christian Reformed Church), which is split from the RCA over the question of the masons. Then we chose to leave and attend a covenant church. I really like the evangelical covenant church. They have found a way to agree to disagree.

Which brings me back to McLaren’s Generous Orthodoxy. In each of the churches I attended, I found people who strongly believed they were right. They believed that their way was the correct way to believe. In a lot of cases the differences were minor (RCA/CRC). And in reading the book I began to ask, “What denomination would Jesus attend?” Would Jesus choose the Catholic church, with it’s strong emphasis on liturgy and reverence? Would he choose a protestant church with its strong emphasis on grace? Would he choose a charismatic church, with its strong emphasis on words of knowledge and communicating with God? Would he choose the Methodist church, hoping to find Wesley’s strong emphasis on going to the people and building leaders? Would he choose the Baptist church for its strong emphasis on salvation and baptism? Would he choose the Lutheran church with its rich historical protestant background? Would he choose from one of the other 30,000 denomination for their unique distinctives?

Which begs a couple of questions. How would he have the time to visit all 30,000 different denominations? If he visited every one on every Sunday, that would take 82 years. And would visiting one more than once validate that denomination above the other ones that he either visited once or never visited? Would it invalidate a denomination if he chose to leave the service early because he had to catch an early flight to the next location? Or would he choose to skip the big churches all together and worship in a house church?

And then I began to realize that maybe form is a product of our own need for validation? Maybe we separate ourselves into smaller and smaller camps to validate what we believe? Maybe we find the smallest of differences to argue about so that we can be right and others can be wrong, which elevates the individual above the other, at least in one’s own mind.

I keep thinking of how God chooses to identify himself. “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.” (Deut 6:4) (emphasis mine) How do we find our way back to a shared community that is one, living with a sense of wholeness and togetherness, celebrating our differences yet working together? How do we find a way past our differences to His church?

Your insights are appreciated?

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Christianity, Church, Church Planting, Conflict, Denominations, Emerging Church, Jesus, Missional, leadership, postmodern, religion

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  • Now that's a question worth asking!

    "Maybe we separate ourselves into smaller and smaller camps to validate what we believe? Maybe we find the smallest of differences to argue about so that we can be right and others can be wrong, which elevates the individual above the other, at least in one’s own mind."

    I think you are right on with that statement, I thought of Paul when You said that; I Cor. 8:1, "...knowledge inflates with pride, but love builds up."

    By the way, as a Catholic, I would say that Jesus would attend the Catholic Church, simply because that was the one He founded.

    God bless you, Jonathan.
  • thelaymansjournal
    I believe (and of course this is based on my beliefs) that he would use the process of elimination and start with whichever organization was teaching the truth, or at least find the one that was teaching as close to the truth as possible. Then perhaps he would help to strengthen that church and use it to correct the rest who were in error and then continue to build and strengthen them all as one.
  • Tim,

    Let's hope we can find a way to love and build up. I like that part so much better.
  • Laymansjournal,

    I like the idea of strengthened as one. So, why can't we do that?
  • jonathan

    i love your conclusion. i think that is really THE point. Sh'ma Yisrael YHWH Elohinu, YHWH echad (Hear Israel...). God is ONE, and He desires we be ONE. in fact, how can Christ Himself be one in the world today, if we, the Body of Christ, are not ONE.

    let us remember the words of our Lord, "By this all people will know you are my disciples, if you love one another."

    peter
  • PB and J,

    Can you imagine what the church would look like if we were truly one? Wow! That would be awesome.
  • astudent
    Well, that does make one think and I like that.
    Looks like an in valid question. It seems to me that the question should be “Which Denomination is Jesus” and the answer is all of them.
    (Mat 18:20 NIV) For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." (It is great to know that when we are thinking about Jesus (Communion) that He knows we are)
    I am not one to agree to disagree. It is pride in what one thinks he knows that causes disagreements; not the differences themselves. Take Baptism as an example. It either is required, or not and the subject should be explored until the truth is known, but at some point men decide they are right and because they know so much they only defend their position. Then they split and take all of those that they can convince of their great understanding with them.
    Unity can only become a reality when we can all admit that we do not know everything and we lay our pride aside to really search out truth.
    Until then God knows our weaknesses and He is able to make every one of us stand (Rom 14:4).
  • That's a good question... maybe he attends all of them every week. Maybe the evolution of the church reflects the best/worst of us but also is part of the ongoing creative dynamic work of Jesus building his church? Whilst recent history has been littered with suscipion, scorn and a desire to be 'the right' church I think we are moving to healthier times which are not just about appreciating each others difference but starting seeing and celebrating those differences - whether in our learning or working together. It also helps us realise that 'orthodox' christians have a lot more in common than seperates them and invites them on that basis to form an alliance for the sake of the gospel. After all it takes all sorts of different churches to reach all sorts of different people...
  • thelaymansjournal
    jonathanbrink,

    "I like the idea of strengthened as one. So, why can’t we do that?"

    I think we can sum that up in one word. Self-righteousness.
  • I'm not sure that organization is so important. I think the answer is love. We can all be one, in love, no matter how we are organized. I like it in Ephesians when Paul tells us that we can know the heigth, depth, width and length of CHRISTS LOVE together with all the saints. It will take all of us to hold the fullness of Christ.
  • I think most times we don't set out to start a new denomination. I think a lot of the drive is to renew the church from within (ie, Wesley and the Anglican Church; Luther and the "catholic" church. As organizations churches evolve over time and often lose much of their spiritual edge (from why they were started in the first place). The emergent church is doing the same thing - it is asking questions and trying to renew the church, but it will ened up taking on its own form and either start a new "association of emergent churches" (ie, the AEC denomination) or remain a collection of independent AEC churches. They will end up doing what they started off saying we shouldn't be doing.
    I also recognize that everybody is different, and people often gravitate to churches that reflect their personality and approach to worship that is comfortable to them. Because the nature of the church is not based on a lifestyle (like Judaism or Islam), the application of doing "church" is open-ended. The habit of the early church was to get together on Sunday. The love feast was done behind closed doors. Acts gives us a picture of the Jerusalem church that was about great expansion, a transient and temporary membership, and an upcoming dispersion. How we apply "as you are going into all the world DISCIPLE..." and love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind..." comes out of people a little bit differently. The gifting we have from the holy Spirit is different, and some gifts are definately for organization of the body. The diversity of denominations is about the grace of God working in different people, and in spite of different people! Wanting no denominations assumes there is a basic goodness in people, which sounds good but isn't reality. We are all fallen, some sanctified, but all Christians are redeemed. Though the biblical norm expects unity of the Spirit, they had the same struggles in Corinth way back then as we are today.
    So which denomination would Jesus go to today? It is a loaded question that gets people to think. If he acted the same as He did 2,000 years ago, He would probably start His own church!
  • nice answer.

    do you have a blog as well? I saw you went to school/lived in Ontario - I live in Sarnia....
  • I have no blog as yet. I like the weather better in Alberta. The census is not in yet about Saskatchewan, though. It is not nearly as humid, but I think the weather has more extremes (+40 in the summer and - 40 in the winter). Viva la spring and fall!
  • Randall Oddo
    First let us look at Matthew 16:18. The latter mentions the Pope and we all know that he is Catholic. Then let us read the footnote and see where the Bible takes us from that Gospel. It suggests we refer to Isaiah 22:19-22. The latter being found in the Old Testament virtually describes what we read in the New Testament. This lends credence to the fact that the cross-over from Judaism to Christianity was prophesied and sanctioned by our Jewish brothers/sisters.

    The Jews used circumcision to bring their young men to acceptable status within their Faith; this was a bloody experience to those seeking confirmation into the Faith. But then the oldest Christian religion in the world sought the right of Comminion and the Eucharist as a means which was not a bloody affair.

    The first Catholic Mass was the Last Supper. This is where we can find the only CONSECRATED Body and Blood of Jesus. Jesus said: "Eat this, (THIS IS) my Body . . . (THIS IS) my Blood." Given that Jesus cannot lie, we can only conclude that the Eucharist (IS THE REAL PRESENCE) and one (again) cannot find the latter in a Protestant environment. Jesus was known to have believed that too many denominations would be confusing to His people, thus, since Catholicism was the only religion around - it is a given what religion He was. Certainly He was raised Jewish and is from the House of David, but that very House forsaw the cross-over.

    In order to find the true Church of Jesus Christ, one must go back to the life and times of Jesus. There we find Apostolic Doctrine, History, Tradition, and Succession. The Protestant Reformation did not occur until 1571, when Martin Luther introduced his (own) redition of Scripture, leaving out, however, many verses and Books to suit his own agenda. His effort to squash indulgencies were well founded, but that was his only positive message. We must remember, Jesus lived and died 1,571 years before these 30,000 religions of today even existed.

    Respectfully, while all roads can lead to Salvation, I would choose the home-cooked meal over the fast-food burger any day - albiet we can survive on both. The home-ccoked meal (The Catholic Church) offers 7 Sacraments; the fast-food burger, however, only recognizes 2 - that being baptism and marriage.

    So the question should not be "what religion was Jesus?" It should be: "what religion would Jesus have wanted for us?" Could it be the one He reflected upon while hanging on that cross . . .?

    Randy Oddo
    Memphis
  • It's clearly obvious that Jesus was a Lutheran.

    Luther's tipping point (new marketing buzzword) was expressed in Paul's letter to the Romans: "For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: 'The righteous will live by faith.'" Every day and every breath should be in line with trust in and reliance upon Christ to govern lives.

    Another significant yet diminutive contribution that Jesus would recognize is Marty's love for the hops. Quoth Marty: "Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep;whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer! (there is no beer in heaven, so let us drink it here)" This apparent contradiction to the life of grace exemplifies the tension between law and gospel. Do we live better because we are saved? Or do we live better to become sanctified? Or do we live better because we have to?

    Would Jesus hang out in beer gardens? Would he hang out where people like to hang out? Does Jesus like tuna with noodle casserole?

    As Walter Martin (Bible Answer Man) used to say, we are all worshiping one God...denominations can be seen as divisive, or they can be seen as different facets of the same jewel...a diamond that reflects the Glory of God in many ways. I appreciate the diversity of my denominational brothers and sisters, and accept the stretching of my doctrine based on their values.

    Our choice is to accept the differences and unify on Christ in the essentials, or to dwell on the differences and focus on doctrine rather than Christ.

    Those things that do not contribute to the matter of salvation are "adiaphora" -- that is, those things that do not contribute to the message of Salvation. "And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." (Colossians 3:17 NIV)

    Solo Gracia.

    - John
  • That was awesome John. More beer.
  • j m
    Hello, I just prayed and opened my bible and read this, now bear in mind that I have alot to learn. Maybe this will help someone.

    EPHESIANS Chapter 6 verse 23 and 24

    23 "peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

    24 "Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen."

    I think as long as we all do whats right for ourselfs through God and Jesus Christ and listen, really listen, through prayer, thats the way someone should go. I belive God judges with what's in our hearts, and what's right for one person is not for another.
    -J.M.
  • Robert
    I am so sorry Jonathan Brink . That the lutheran church you attended was lutheran in name only.

    Because after attending it . You could only point out it had a rich tradition in protestantism.

    Thats not what Luther or any confessional lutheran would want you to come away with.

    .

    What we would want you to know is . That the only true God loved you so much that He set aside his Godly crown and came down, to live and die in your stead Winning you complete and total forgivness and eternal life.



    Jesus does attend our wels lutheran services . I have no doubt about that .
    because where ever Jesus his full and free forgivness won for our sins . Is offered . Jesus is there.

    where ever two or three are gathered in his name Jesus is there. Thats his promise .
  • Robert, I'm actually sure God was there at the Lutheran service I was at, and the Catholic one, and the Protestant one, and the other ones.
  • Robert
    the lutheran confessons speak for us.

    ...God provides for the public proclamation of his divine, eternal law and the wonderful counsel
    concerning our redemption, namely, the holy and only saving Gospel of his eternal Son, our only
    Saviour and Redeemer, Jesus Christ. Thereby he gathers an eternal church for himself out of the
    human race and works in the hearts of men true repentance and knowledge of their sins and true
    faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ. (FC SD II:50, Tappert)



    “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations...” (Luke 24:46-47, NKJV)

    ...sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence... (1 Peter 3:15, NASB)



    ...Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, “was put to death for our
    trespasses and raised again for our justification” (Rom. 4:25).
    He alone is “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the
    world” (John 1:29). “God has laid upon him the iniquities
    of us all” (Isa. 53:6). Moreover, “all have sinned,” and
    “they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the
    redemption which is in Christ Jesus, by his blood”
    (Rom. 3:23-25). (SA II I:1-2, Tappert)



    when we follow his institution and command in the
    Lord’s Supper and say, “This is my body,” then
    it is his body, not because of our speaking or of our
    efficacious word, but because of his command in which
    he has told us so to speak and to do and has attached
    his own command and deed to our speaking.
    (FC SD VII:78, Tappert)




    It is taught among us that Baptism is necessary
    and that grace is offered through it. Children,
    too, should be baptized, for in Baptism they are
    committed to God and become acceptable
    to him. (AC IX:1-2, Tappert)


    We do not call ourselves Lutherans, but are so styled by our enemies, and we permit it as a token of our consent with the pure teaching of the Word which Luther set forth. We suffer ourselves to bear his name, not as of one who has invented a new faith, but of one who has restored the old, and purified the Church. -- Johann Gerhard


    We do not claim that our Confessors were infallible. We do not say they could not fail. We only claim that they did not fail. -- Charles Porterfield Krauth


    The Evangelical Catholic is a glorious Church; it holds and conforms itself chiefly to the Sacraments. The Evangelical Reformed is a glorious Church; it holds and conforms itself chiefly to the Word of God. More glorious than both is the Evangelical Lutheran Church; it holds and conforms itself both to the Sacraments and the Word of God. Into this Lutheran Church both the others are developing, even without the intentional aid of men. But the way of the ungodly shall perish, says David (Ps. 1:6). -- Claus Harms
  • Robert
    many churches talk about love a lot . We here it even from churches that are not christian but now this is how we know love.




    Johannes Quenstedt commenting on 1 John 3:16: "This is how we know love: that Christ laid down His life for us."
    This is the love of God; rather than banish men eternally from heaven He removed Himself from heaven, clothed Himself with flesh, became the Creature of a creature, enclosed Himself in the womb of the virgin, was wrapped in rags, laid in hay and housed in a barn. Nor does His love stop here; but after a life spent in poverty and adversities this love drives Christ to the ground on Olivet, binds Him in chains, delivers Him to jailers, cuts Him with the lash, crowns Him with thorns, fastens Him with nails to the Cross, and gives Him to drink the cup of bitterness. And finally this love compels Him to die, to die for adversaries and enemies (Rom. 5:6). Continuously and in these sundry ways Christ, who thirsts so greatly for our salvation, declares His love and mercy toward the human race.
  • Robert
    Luthers Hymn


    Dear christians one and all rejoice




    http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/d/c/o/dconeall.htm
  • The question never entered my mind when I first joined a church, which was close to ten years ago, when I was fifty. I walked into a 'Sunday Family Dinner' one afternoon and found a congregation that received me wholehartedly & one where I could activly participate. I belong to an inercity UMC. We serve the disenfranchised, providing a venue for worship and service to Christ as we care for the less fortunate. I've never wondered so much what seperates our beliefs or traditions from those of the church down the block, but more what brings us closer. At New Life UMC, we depend a great deal on partner churches to provide services. Without the army of volunteers and generous donations from other congregations and other denominations, we'd not be able to provide the generous wealth of clothing, nurishment, healthcare, and fellowship. We receive and give in the name of Christ, to all who in need.
  • Jeffrey
    I hve always asked the question, if only one book is used to descern what God wants from us them why are there so many different ways people are following Him(God). Who is right?
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